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Yahoo! 360° - Sin D's Blog:The Dark Side of Wikipedia



Yahoo! 360° - Sin D's Blog


The Dark Side of Wikipedia


Posted by randfish on Tue (11/20/07) at 12:44 AM Spamming & Black Hat

Biased manipulation runs wild on Wikipedia, and the extent to which it influences the pages of that site will probably never be known. In the field of SEO, where every link counts, Wikipedia's reference links at the bottom of articles and their external links in the body text of articles were once considered search engine ranking gold. Early this year, Wikipedia moved to institute nofollow on all outbound links, and many presumed the controversy would die there. It hasn't.

I think the best way I can illustrate this massive problem is to attack the most common questions that come up around Wiki-hacking (yes, I'm inventing a moniker so I don't have to say "editing Wikipedia from a biased perspective in inaccurate, misleading or mis-representational ways" every time). Those who frequent Wikipedia would probably consider these edits to be "vandalism," but that's a very inaccurate representation of the actions that are actually happening. Vandalism refers to intentional destruction or damage of property - in the offline world, think graffiti or bricks through a window. These Wikipedia edits are, primarily, intended never to be detected by other Wikipedia editors or the outside world - a better analogy might be the subtle manipulation of a news report to slant in favor of a political party or candidate.

Wikipedia Meets a Black Hat

Some major questions and issues:

Why Edit Wikipedia Pages if There's No Link Juice?

* Reputation Management - if Wikipedia has bad things to say about a topic, there will almost certainly be someone who wishes to see that information removed.
* Link Traffic - Wikipedia articles, due to their phenomenal overrepresentation in search engines, can drive a remarkable amount of traffic, so many wiki-hacks are simply attempts to boost click-throughs
* Promotion - If you were a cellphone company, you might seriously consider editing the Wiki article on cellphone retailers, possibly adding a link to a list of "highest rated" stores by consumers according to a bogus study you host on your site (or another site) and then copying that list in short-format on the Wikipedia entry. Other promotional tactics are less obvious, but often more difficult to identify. And, yes, that story is a modified version of a true instance of Wiki-promotion.
* To Spite - If your competitor is ranking ahead of you on Google, or kicking you around in sales, you might find that Wikipedia is an excellent place to create a page on their company and detail the long list of terrible misdeeds they've committed. What's great (or horrible) about this practice is that generally, they'll be the ones who later come in and look like spammers for erasing the content or trying to have it removed, which actually helps to bolster the veracity of information in the eyes of other editors or administrators. It's a dirty but highly effective tactic to leverage against an opponent. I've even heard a story about using this technique for blackmailing the company referenced in the negative article, and pretending to "switch sides" in the editorial debate on the talk page once the money had been paid (it's DMOZ all over again!).
* For Link Juice - Wait, I thought there was no link juice on Wikipedia... Well, not directly. But, Wikipedia is such a reference resource that if your site earns links on popular pages, you'll find that those links find their way into forums, blog posts, articles, and journalistic publications more often than not. This is probably one of the most clever ways to use Wikipedia, because you'll need to link to something worthy of being spread, anyway, which probably means that even a heavy-handed Wiki-editor won't remove it, as it's typically relevant enough and interesting enough to belong there. One might even argue that this isn't Wiki-Hacking at all (perhaps it's the linkbait of Wikipedia?).
* To Earn Credit - The Wikipedia hierarchy rewards frequent, positive edits, and for many Wiki-hackers this is a great way to build up a solid, respectable-looking profile and potentially even be rewarded with administrator status.
* Wiki-Jacking - Since I've written about this topic previously, I won't cover it again in-depth.

How Do Malicious Edits Happen?

* Anonymously - As of now, users can still make edits anonymously without logging in. Granted, Wikipedia will record your IP address, but you don't have to provide any personal information (not even fake stuff).
* Through Proxies - When one anonymous account just won't do, or you don't want the anonymous account to have any connection to your other account(s), using a proxy IP address lets you connect through to Wikipedia largely undetected (so long as the proxy provides solid anonymity).
* Through Trusted Accounts - For the more experienced Wiki-Hackers, a trusted account is a must have. Trusted accounts that make dozens of edits each day are much less likely to be accused of manipulation or have their content modified by another editor, even if complaints arise.
* Via Multiple Accounts with History - The savviest of Wiki-Hackers I've talked to runs more than a dozen unique, trusted accounts with positive history, and can use these

What are Some of the Best/Worst Stories I've Heard?

* The Sock Puppet Betrayer - This is second-hand, so the details might be fuzzy, but the basic approach was sheer genius. Basically, this Wiki-Hacker created several accounts on different IPs, then vandalized a number of pages, mostly small and under-the-radar, appearing to look like a competitor (adding links, references, promotional content, etc). He then "investigated" these pages through his trusted account, "found" the "spammers," removed their content, and was praised by some other community editors. Later, he used the newfound trust to create subtle, but effective references for his own client.
* The Account Buyer - Supposedly, this fellow has been tracking down Wikipedia editors and offering to buy their account user names and passwords for the "trust" they've earned. According to him, he's only got 4 so far, but these have all been used effectively to help create and then "back up" favorable changes to a number of pages in a specific vertical.
* The Talker - One of the smartest Wiki-Hackers, in my opinion, is barely an editor of content at all, but simply uses a well-liked editorial account on Talk Pages, helping to sway the discussion in favor of keeping/removing links & content. On rare occasion, rather than actually making changes, the Talker will simply suggest that certain edits be made, then use a secondary or anonymous account to complete them if there's no pushback.
* The Bad Mouther - This particular Wiki Hacker got caught by another editor and in order to save himself, dug through every edit his accuser had ever made, and ended up being able to keep not only his account, but his edits by making it appear that the accuser was actually an "SEO," whose perspective and judgment were biased.

Why Don't Administrators Stop this Behavior?

They do, actually. You can see this popular project page called WikiProject Spam, where a "spamstar of glory" (yes, seriously) is awarded for stopping spammers on Wikipedia. A fairly immense to-do list exists on this page, and it's actually one of the Wiki-Hackers' most feared pages. Unfortunately, it's also a tool - Wiki-Hackers who want information removed or who want to build up the "trust" of their own accounts will actually become spam investigators and reporters. One of the best ways to reach administrator level is actually to catch some of the "trusted" accounts that are actually other Wiki-Hackers, and thus the community of Wiki-Hackers is not on particularly good terms with one another. Turning in other hackers puts you above suspicion in a way that few other actions on Wikipedia can, and thus, it's one of the holy grails of the infiltrator-style hackers.

How do You Know All This, Rand?

Two ways, really. First, I've played around first-hand with some of the pages with Wikipedia. In fact, prior to the "nofollow" implementation on links, I personally had a few editorial accounts through proxy IP addresses, though I probably haven't actively edited Wikipedia pages in the last 9 months. Instead, I've been connecting over email and in-person with a lot of folks who run reputation management and link building campaigns that do leverage Wikipedia. The number of stories, depth of detail, and actual examples (which I obviously can't share without betraying a lot of trust), including the stories I've recounted above, paint a fairly dark picture of what's actually happening at Wikipedia.

Granted, because of my profession, I'm almost certainly getting an overrepresentation of the more manipulative aspects of what happens on Wikipedia. It's only natural. While lots of experienced Wiki-Hackers love to share their favorite stories of manipulating the site, very few of the truly quality editors are A) ever going to meet me at a party or go get some drinks with me at a conference bar, or B) boast about the terrific article they created about 70s-style tube socks as fashion accessories.

Please do note that the specific stories I've recounted above have had details removed or even slightly modified to keep the identities of my sources anonymous. A couple, as I noted, are second-hand, as well, so I'm guessing some details may be missing. However, even with the details missing, you can still get a sense of the tactics for manipulation and the extent to which people are willing to go to in order to change Wikipedia in their favor.

One Quick Example from the Site

This comes from two friends at Wikipedia who really are legitimate editors and spam fighters, Jon Hochman (one of the foremost authorities on Wikipedia & SEO) and Durova (who spoke at SMX Social in October and had this terrificly informative interview over chat with Jim Hedger). From Durova's Talk Page Archives:

I just spent 50 minutes playing cat and mouse with a vandal, and WP:AIV still hasn't acted on my block request. I guess its time to ask for the tools. What do you think? Jehochman (talk/contrib) 04:45, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Done, 24 hour block. Sometimes it feels good to have the tools. Thanks for the heads up. Cheers, DurovaCharge! 04:48, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

This one is using proxies. He's over here now: 142.179.62.0 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log) Jehochman (talk/contrib) 04:53, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
I think we are dealing with a black hat SEO who may be using some sort of script. I see a pattern in the edits. My suspicion is that they want one specific reference gone, and are attacking all of them to create confusion. Can we semi-protect the targeted articles, starting with Traffic Power? Jehochman (talk/contrib) 05:04, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Am I caught up on the blocks? Keep me apprised; I'm working on a complex investigation with another editor atm. DurovaCharge! 05:05, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Semi-protecting. Give me the full list. DurovaCharge! 05:07, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Blocks are good. Here are the targeted articles. I think he'll be back soon. Jehochman (talk/contrib) 05:11, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Obviously, this example above is a very amateur attempt, and Jon & Durova are all over it. Professional-level Wiki-Hacking is much more difficult to rat out.

The most frustrating part for Wikipedians has to be that they themselves receive no financial reward for their efforts, yet their opposition, the Wiki-Hackers, benefit monetarily and directly when they have success penetrating the spam police.

Do all of these Wiki-Wars Really Matter?

The most accurate answer is probably "it depends." It's very hard to gauge how much the public trusts information on Wikipedia. My gut tells me that, sadly, a lot of people simply accept whatever Wikipedia says without checking real sources of information (yes, I'm saying that Wikipedia by its very nature is untrustworthy, even if 95%+ of the information there is factual, which is probably a big stretch). However, I can say with some certainty that businesses and individuals get a great deal of value and suffer a great deal of loss when Wikipedia contains positive/negative information about them (very similar to Google or other search engines). Thus, a secondary "black" market will always exist to exploit the site and attempt to change information. Even if Wikipedia went into immediate lockdown mode, there would be auctions for trusted editorial accounts, devious manipulation, and, probably, an even higher price on all of the Wiki-Hacking style activities.

There's no real solution to the cat-and-mouse game, unless Jimbo wants to turn Wikipedia into some sort of Mahalo-like resource, where only those invited can edit (and even then, I'm guessing it will just mean higher prices, not an end to hacking).

p.s. Yes, the nofollows on all links to Wikipedia are intentionally "nofollowed." Someone should create a blog plug-in to auto-nofollow Wikipedia links so the site stops ranking atop every query in existence.

p.p.s. None of the content in this post is intended to suggest that I don't respect the project, its aims, or the lofty aspirations of many of the hardworking people trying to make it a good resource. In fact, I believe quite the opposite - that folks like Durova, in particular, and others like here have a noble, self-sacrificing streak that's both rare and praise-worthy. But, depending on your view of Wikipedia and black/gray hat social media practices as a whole, you might find some of her opponents equally admirable, or at least, impressively creative.
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From: "SEOmoz" Add to Address BookAdd to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
To: sin_dumitru2001@yahoo.com
Subject: This Newsletter Will Self-Destruct in 43,200 Minutes
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:07:04 -0600
Howdy SEOmozzers,

Welcome to our November newsletter. We're excited to bring you all sorts of great links and information, but we're not huge fans of the long-form emails, and hopefully you'll appreciate the brevity as well. Without further ado:

* Marketplace is a Hit - The SEOmoz Marketplace has grown tremendously, with hundreds of firms in the search space registering profiles, posting job listings & generating business. If you need to hire, want to be hired, or just want to increase your networking visibility, it's a must.
* Pubcon Vegas starts next Tuesday, and 7 SEOmozzers will be in attendance. We're throwing a reservations required bash with werewolves and playing cards and famous SEOs, so make sure to register if you'd like to come.
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* Best of the Blog - The last 30 days have seen some incredibly popular posts from the SEOmoz blog, including:
o The Dark Side of Wikipedia – Rand's rundown of how Wikipedia is still used to manipulate rankings, despite their site-wide use of nofollow on external links.
o Google's Sitelinks and Brand Domination through Keyword Ownership - How you can reach coveted "sitelink" status, what it means and what can prevent you from achieving it.
o How PageRank Works & Why The Original PR Formula May be Flawed – Our own engineering guru, Si, breaks down (in extraordinary depth) how PageRank calculates the flow and attribution of link juice, problems with leaks and much more.
o Dave Naylor in Three Acts – One of the most respected (and notorious) SEOs in the world, Dave Naylor, dropped by to film a jumbo-sized, three part Whiteboard Friday not to be missed. Dave and Rand discuss the PageRank update, ranking signals, temporal link models, and even a few sneaky blackhat tactics; all in inimitable Dave Naylor style.
* Secrets from the Future - We can't actually tell you what we're planning to launch in January, but we can say this - it's going to be big. Really, really big. OK - Here's a hint - it's called "SEO Analytics." That's all we're saying. That, and we're currently offering 20% off passes to SMX West in February, which promises to be the event of the year (Google parties, SEOmoz parties and Silicon Valley in the winter).

That's all folks! As always, thank you so much for your continued readership, support and participation in our community. We've seen some amazing growth this year and we couldn't have done it without you. We hope to see you at one or more of the shows in the upcoming months and look forward to bringing you more exciting news and features in next month's Newsletter.

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randfish
Wikipedia Finally Makes the Right Decision

Posted by randfish on Sun (1/21/07) at 11:34 PM Link Building

It may seem odd coming from someone who practices link building and whose clients require the service, but I'm gald to see that Wikipedia has shifted back to nofollow on all outbound links. What surprises me is that a relatively small-time SEO contest was the catalyst (according to Wikipedia's talk page on the subject).

At Jimbo Wales' directive, all external links within the English language Wikipedia are now coded "nofollow" -- this should help cut spamming immensely once word gets out in the SEO community.

This was mentioned in the discussion Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Globalwarming awareness2007/SEO world championship -- expect a spam onslaught.

As usual, the "SEO" brush is applied as a moniker to mean "those who spam for links." I don't expect this language or reputation to change, but it's always sad to see. What will be interesting to watch is how it really affects Wikipedia's spam problem. From my perspective, there may be slightly less of an incentive for spammers to hit Wikipedia pages in the short term, but no less value to serious marketers seeking to boost traffic and authority by creating relevant Wikipedia links.

I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that Wikipedia doesn't revert back and switch back to live links in the future. Since anyone can add them, Wikipedia is practically the definition of where nofollow should be instituted. Matt Cutts mentioned back in our multiple choice interview that:

In my ideal world, Wikipedia would add nofollow to their untrusted links, but work out ways to allow trusted links to remove the nofollow attribute.

They're halfway to your dream Matt. Here's to hoping they don't go any further :)

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Joost de Valk (196) Joost de Valk
Sun (1/21/07) at 11:55 PM
They're learning fast... The admin who mailed me that they added nofollow is one of the people trying to learn from the SEO community, and some have even proposed working with the SEO community to get a way to prevent spam which makes everyone happy. Matt's dream might still come true :)
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am9905d (59) am9905d
Mon (1/22/07) at 01:09 AM
It will be interesting to see what will happen with the really niche SERPs where a wikipedia link could make a big difference.
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AndyBeard (84) AndyBeard
Mon (1/22/07) at 01:26 AM

It wasn't the only alternative and this effectively turns Wikipedia into a black hole of link equity.

It is hard enough to rank against Wikipedia stubs as it is.

I proposed a much easier to implement system in a blog post today that would meet Matts ideal situation.

I honestly hate the idea of more nofollow than less, and how is Google meant to handle duplicate content if it can't count links to reference work?

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Michael Martinez Michael Martinez
Mon (1/22/07) at 12:44 PM

It wasn't the only alternative and this effectively turns Wikipedia into a black hole of link equity.



Links provide four points of value:

Visibility
Traffic
Anchor text
Internal PageRank

I don't see that Wikipedia has become "a black hole of link euity". Their Internal PageRank will most likely be distributed evenly across all Web sites. That's a good thing.

All people really lose is the anchor text and, frankly, too many SEOs use it as a crutch anyway.
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AndyBeard AndyBeard
Mon (1/22/07) at 09:00 PM

They are also used to determine duplicate content and the origin of ideas.

Do a blogsearch for Wikipedia and references to it being a "black hole" for link equity

None of them are currently linking back to my blog, where the term was first used

The number one listing for digital camera might well change to Wikipedia in the next few days as the number one and two currently used to have a link on the Wikipedia page that was followable.

I wonder how much material was used from those sites as a reference.
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leadegroot leadegroot
Mon (1/22/07) at 09:27 PM

The 'black hole' effect concerns me - we tell people to link out, because passing PR is not a bad thing, but are we now going to see Wiki move up the rankings because wiki doesn't pass the love to the topic-related sites that it used to?
The number of results wiki dominates already is bad enough - will it get worse? :(

I do wonder if the engines shouldn't introduce some sort of reverse-penalty; if all your outbound links on a page are condomed, then you suffer a ranking penalty.
I wonder if that wouldn't improve the results?
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Michael Martinez Michael Martinez
Tue (1/23/07) at 08:40 AM


...but are we now going to see Wiki move up the rankings because wiki doesn't pass the love to the topic-related sites that it used to?



That is highly unlikely.

(Internal) PageRank is not necessarily the deciding factor in search results. It has absolutely no impact on determining relevance, which is how content is first sorted.

And people can pretty easily outrank Wikpiedia articles for a variety of topics. I do it in many verticals.
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AndyBeard AndyBeard
Tue (1/23/07) at 09:04 AM

That flies in the face of linking content to other relevant content.

Maybe internal relevance is less important than external, or given less weighting, but linkage is one way of adding value to duplicate content.

Edit: One additional point, if internal relevance wasn't important, how would a Wikipedia stub outrank sites with 3000 backlinks? (yes that has happened to me) Edited by AndyBeard on Tue (1/23/07) at 09:12 AM
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Michael Martinez Michael Martinez
Tue (1/23/07) at 08:41 AM

Unintentional duplicate.

Matt: When I clicked on the ADD button nothing appeared to happen. Edited by Michael Martinez on Tue (1/23/07) at 08:44 AM
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Michael Martinez Michael Martinez
Tue (1/23/07) at 08:42 AM

Unintentional duplicate. Edited by Michael Martinez on Tue (1/23/07) at 08:44 AM
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leadegroot (77) leadegroot
Mon (1/22/07) at 02:03 AM

Odd, I am seeing nofollow on some pages, but not others.
Surely they have only one central code source?
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Joost de Valk Joost de Valk
Mon (1/22/07) at 02:07 AM

It should be on all outbound links... Wikimedia, their software, should be adding it in... Which pages do you see that don't have nofollow?
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leadegroot leadegroot
Mon (1/22/07) at 02:02 PM
Hi Joost!


Its there now on the ones I checked yesterday.
I'm thinking it was a caching issue.
Should have thought of that :(
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Joost de Valk Joost de Valk
Mon (1/22/07) at 11:35 PM

Good, that's what I thought ;) Edited by Joost de Valk on Mon (1/22/07) at 11:36 PM
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Search Engines WEB (78) Search Engines WEB
Mon (1/22/07) at 04:53 AM
THIS IS A HORRIBLE IDEA !!!!!

NOFOLLOW Is a cowardly way out of accepting responsibility. Only cowards use nofollow !!!

Everyone knows the value of getting a good link - untile a day ago Wikepedia had made #1 on Google & Yahoo for: Search Engine Optimization .....breaking a two year run by a well known SEO.

Now Wikipedia comes up on the top 20 for thousands of competative queries

Even this blog once did a topic about its year-end STATS and showed how my social sites were linking to it.

How would everyone like it, if all those backlinks converted to NOFOLLOW until they recieved a reciprocal link

That will be the trend if this continues (what's in it for me)

Listen to SearchEnginesWeb - do away with the NoFollow ASAP Edited by Search Engines WEB on Mon (1/22/07) at 04:54 AM
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Elena Elena
Mon (1/22/07) at 10:25 AM

NOFOLLOW Is a cowardly way out of accepting responsibility. Only cowards use nofollow !!!

Odd. I've always thought it is an efficient way of well.. not wasting time.
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EGOL (872) EGOL Premium Member
Mon (1/22/07) at 05:55 AM

This is very wise for wikipedia. It increases the ratio of editorially given links in their documents. It also reduces the incentive for linkbuilders who edit wikipedia articles outside of their area of expertise for the purpose of making their links look legit.

This call by wikipedia will decrease spam and preserve article quality.

It does not stop the problem. Some linkbuilders will still grub wikipedia links, but now only for the traffic instead of for the link juice. Edited by EGOL on Mon (1/22/07) at 07:06 AM
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sherwoodseo sherwoodseo
Mon (1/22/07) at 06:44 AM

Agreed. There are thousands of Wikipedia pages that gets 4-figure traffic and up - still making it worth the effort for spammers and honest SEOs alike. Edited by sherwoodseo on Mon (1/22/07) at 06:50 AM
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davidmihm (483) davidmihm Premium Member
Mon (1/22/07) at 06:43 AM

I also think this makes a lot of sense for Wikipedia. Posting links for new sites or those which haven't been crawled in awhile, though, seems like it would still help, just to get the spiders to visit and index the site...

randfish Thu, Dec 07, 2006 at 04:49:38 PM

mbarr - Adam Lasnik & Tim Converse both said on a panel today at SES Chicago that they don't "obey" the no following part of nofollow. Both agreed that a more accurate name woudl actually be "nolinkjuice" - it doesn't give anchor text benefit or link pop benefit. They still get crawled as a discovery method.

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GeoffreyF67 GeoffreyF67
Mon (1/22/07) at 09:30 PM

And this, Rand, is exactly why spammers don't really give a damn about nofollow. After all, all they really want is for their pages to be found especially if they're throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks!

G-Man
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AndrewRedfern (1) AndrewRedfern
Mon (1/22/07) at 06:43 AM

Given that Wikipedia ranks for almost all terms well - the traffic from a well placed link is substantial enough without the "link love"; so we cant really complain if they do change it.
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Cygnus (90) Cygnus
Mon (1/22/07) at 06:51 AM

I suppose that since I never really trusted Wikipedia, that this just makes things rather reciprocal. :)

It was mentioned elsewhere, but the value in spamming Wikis aren't just for the link equity, but for the pure traffic. If a wiki is ranking for a highly competitive term, then it makes sense to have a link from that page, "no follow" or not. Thus, I don't expect this to really solve Wiki's problems; it is a community and management issue.

Cygnus
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3PointRoss (2) 3PointRoss
Mon (1/22/07) at 07:00 AM

I am somewhat conflicted about the whole idea. In terms of battling spam it will likely have a positive effect (however I doubt that it is going to FIX it.) However it does seem to go against the idea that a link from a high trusted site is supposed to be a vote, and the legit links on wiki should be getting a vote.

I may be biased though, I have a few sites that are linked from Wikipedia (legit).
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Jeremy Luebke (168) Jeremy Luebke
Mon (1/22/07) at 07:28 AM

Wiki links are no better than guestbook links in many ways therefore I applaud the move and hope it sticks.

In the end, I predict it will be easier for me to get some links to stick now. I'm more interested in being an authority for a subject than link juice anyways.
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Peter T Davis (7) Peter T Davis
Mon (1/22/07) at 07:34 AM

Well, not everyone thinks that SEOs are a bunch of link spammers. Some people think that SEOs are people who write "nonsense designed to do nothing but attract a Digg."
see....
http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2007/...
Maybe link baiter will replace link spammer as the new SEO.

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oddcomments (5) oddcomments
Mon (1/22/07) at 07:51 AM
It may no longer pass PageRank ...
but I have a feeling the engines will still rely on Wikipedia for determining relevancy. It is just too good of a resource.
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EGOL EGOL
Mon (1/22/07) at 10:04 AM

lol... that would be really sneaky... but I think that it is a good idea.
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Joost de Valk Joost de Valk
Mon (1/22/07) at 11:38 PM
The biggest problems with SE's and WikiPedia is that SE's don't seem to have found a way yet to classify "stubs" (WikiPedia term for articles that have been determined to be incorrect or incomplete), as they still rank these stubs very highly...

Problem is that spamming these stubs is easy too, since admins aren't watching those that closely (oops, did I say that ;) )
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leadegroot leadegroot
Tue (1/23/07) at 01:14 AM
But do remember that Wikipedia could solve that - a page that is identified as a stub could have a meta robots noindex, nofollow put on it!
Thats an easy one - but will they make the effort?
(and if you can point me to where to make the suggestion I will happily make it)
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Blackbeard (35) Blackbeard
Mon (1/22/07) at 09:22 AM
This will be about as effective at stopping Wikipedia spam as it was for stopping blog spam. People thought nofollow would put a dent in blog spam and if anything it had the reverse effect. This doesn't really solve the problem, only the symptom. The problem is that links are a major part of how search engines rank pages, and there is a large financial incentive to ranking high. Until search engines learn to rank by variables other than links, the large(high trust) websites that rely on user-generated content are going to be extremely vulnerable to link spam. To think otherwise is foolish.
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Selkirk (5) Selkirk
Mon (1/22/07) at 09:30 AM
nofollow won't prevent WikiPedia spam any more than it has prevented blog spam. nofollow improves the quality of the SERPS, not the quality of the sites that use it.

If anything, the WikiPedia pages may rank

Editorializing doesn't seem to scale well. WikiPedia is the new DMOZ.
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jjspirko (8) jjspirko
Mon (1/22/07) at 09:36 AM
I think this means nothing.

1. SEs seem to be ignoring the command.

2. Adding it to blogs (the original reason) has done NOT ONE THING to cut down on comment spam.

Nofollow may be fast becoming the most useless command on the net,

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ROIGuy (20) ROIGuy
Mon (1/22/07) at 09:37 AM
Announcing this to the SEO community may put a small dent in Wikipedia link spam. SEOs that have been paying attention may have realized that Google wasn't passing PR from Wikipedia for some time.

The real problem is that Wikipedia ranks too high for many, many terms because it is considered an "authority" site and it passes INTERNAL PR.

The real solution is for the engines to treat Wikipedia sections as independent sites and force them to rank based on the external links pointing in to them. The Wikipedia entry for SEO, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_engine_op... has less than 5,000 external links (mostly complaining about it ranking higher than it should, I imagine).

Take the same content, same back links, etc. and put it up at a 5 year old domain that wasn't part of Wikipedia and I doubt it would have a PR of 7 or rank in the top 10. Edited by ROIGuy on Mon (1/22/07) at 09:38 AM
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Aaron Pratt Aaron Pratt
Mon (1/22/07) at 09:43 AM
ROIGuy - I agree with the first two paragraphs of your comment. :)
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ROIGuy ROIGuy
Mon (1/22/07) at 03:15 PM
Aaron:

Thanks for the endorsement, but why don't you agree with my third or fourth paragraph :-).
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EGOL (872) EGOL Premium Member
Mon (1/22/07) at 10:10 AM

The real problem is that Wikipedia ranks too high for many, many terms because it is considered an "authority" site and it passes INTERNAL PR.



I agree, I agree, I agree. I see wikipedia STUB pages and articles with trivial content rank higher in the Google SERPs than far superior content which is optimized and has a nice number of links. I think that Google needs to crank down the value of internal link juice or at least look at content depth.

I would like to see wikipedia place nofollow tags to all of their STUB pages.
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am9905d am9905d
Mon (1/22/07) at 10:26 AM
I really doubt that will happen especially when they actually request people to link to stubs
example
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GeoffreyF67 GeoffreyF67
Mon (1/22/07) at 02:26 PM
No. No. And No.

Stub pages should be marked as NOINDEX until they are no longer a stub.

G-Man
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stokelake (13) stokelake
Mon (1/22/07) at 10:17 AM
Rand, i assume this means that your page strength tool needs to be amended, i.e. take out the wikipedia links section. Edited by stokelake on Mon (1/22/07) at 10:18 AM
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Aaron Pratt (178) Aaron Pratt
Mon (1/22/07) at 10:18 AM
Wikipedia is the Amazon.com of content in Google.

Remember guys that Wiki's rankings will not change, it just will now be allowed to pass HUGE PR favor to it's sponsors.

;-0
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SEO Practices (91) SEO Practices Premium Member
Mon (1/22/07) at 11:43 AM
leadegroot said:
"Odd, I am seeing nofollow on some pages, but not others. Surely they have only one central code source?"

I've noticed the same thing too, is this going to be applied to all links or just for new links?


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jjspirko (8) jjspirko
Mon (1/22/07) at 12:41 PM
Seriously try this,

Make a page about some made up term something like

hyperactivemoroniclinkprotection for an example.

Plant it deep with no internal links from the domain you put it on.

Now go to one of your other domains something with high authority. Make and anchor link for

hyperactivemoroniclinkprotection (or what ever term you choose) make it the only link you ever give the page.

Wait say 2-3 weeks, search for the term.

You will know the truth about and SE indexing.

Mark Barrera at MasterLink reported on this a while ago http://dallas-seo.blogspot.com/2006/11/nofoll...

I did too but won't spam Rands blog with my own self serving link but let me say I posted on it more then a full YEAR ago. Like I have said once here already, the command has been rendered all but useless. Seeing is believing try it yourself,

Jack Spirko
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Michael Martinez Michael Martinez
Mon (1/22/07) at 12:52 PM

Mark Barrera at MasterLink reported on this a while ago ...



His test was invalid.

Frankly, many of the comments posted here are very disappointing, as they underscore just how much ignorance continues to flow through the SEO community regarding these matters.

This ain't rocket science.
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randfish randfish
Mon (1/22/07) at 01:11 PM
Michael - it's my opinion that your criticism, without suitable backup evidence and a point of your own does more of a disservice than the misinformation. Simply saying that one disagrees and it should be obvious that someone else is wrong is no help at all. It's one of the patterns I dislike most.

On this specific issue, I think I even agree with you - that nofollow isn't always interpreted correctly by folks, but the style and animosity seem perplexing from someone who has the ability to provide salient information. Edited by randfish on Mon (1/22/07) at 01:12 PM
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AndyBeard AndyBeard
Mon (1/22/07) at 09:23 PM
Here is one additional test I like to refer to because it has nice pictures and is easy for people to understand.

http://www.macalua.com/2006/11/03/nofollow-ya...
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Michael Martinez Michael Martinez
Tue (1/23/07) at 07:41 PM

...it's my opinion that your criticism, without suitable backup evidence and a point of your own does more of a disservice than the misinformation....



I could say it's a disservice for you to endorse an obviously flawed test, Rand. There are several problems with his test, the first of which is that he wrongly attributed a promise to Google that they never made (he quoted a Searchenginewatch post rather than Google's original post as written by Matt Cutts, which differed from what was shared on SEW).

This is so typical of SEO community "tests" and analysis, and the best service you and I can provide is to challenge all such tests and insist that people hold themselves to higher standards.
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jjspirko jjspirko
Tue (1/23/07) at 07:52 PM
Mike,

You need a pill man. You can disagree with out being nasty. The reality is you can criticize the test but can you explain the results. Or do you just want to toss them on semantics.

Jack
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Michael Martinez Michael Martinez
Tue (1/23/07) at 08:32 PM

You need a pill man. You can disagree with out being nasty.



You and I clearly have different ideas of what constitutes "being nasty".
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CarstenC (102) CarstenC Premium Member
Mon (1/22/07) at 03:51 PM
>In my ideal world, Wikipedia would add nofollow to their untrusted links, but work out ways to allow trusted links to remove the nofollow attribute.

> They're halfway to your dream Matt. Here's to hoping they don't go any further :)

C'mon the last part can Google do themselves, because that is what they already used to do in the past. I don't have to be a Google engineer to determine trustworthy links at wikipedia. Three Hints.

1. ARTICLE MAIN SPACE ONLY
2. LINK AGE
3. INTERNAL WIKIPEDIA LINKING (especially CATEGORIES)

I can spell it out if needed.. ooh.. I already did. Well, Invoice is in the mail .. What is the Street Number again in Mountain View? ;)



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SearchStudent (163) SearchStudent Premium Member
Mon (1/22/07) at 08:57 PM
If I was wikipedia, I would have done it a long time ago. And I'm a link slut.

Even link sluts need condoms when putting out so much. Don't wanna end up with a nasty LTD (Link Transmitted Disease).

Many SEOs get mad about engines and sites taking away their low hanging fruit but let's face it people, part of being an SEO is to evolve and see these things coming. If we didn't evolve, we'd all still be loving crappy link exchanges and FFAs.

So in short (for you complainers) Don't get mad, get better at being an SEO already.
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jjspirko (8) jjspirko
Tue (1/23/07) at 12:21 PM
OK I went on record here that rel=nofollow was useless and pointless. That it did not slow spam and people that contribute real comments are worthy of a full link anyway.

Someone called me on it (you know who you are) and asked why I use them on my blog, this was the result.

Killing the No Follow at Comtech News

No more nofollow on ComTech News.

So if nothing else I put my money where my mouth is,

Jack Spirko Edited by jjspirko on Tue (1/23/07) at 12:24 PM
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seoteam (28) seoteam
Wed (1/24/07) at 09:28 AM
This will certainly cut down on the spam but it was once a great resource for SEO.

PS wiki search sucks!!!
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Tony Adam (8) Tony Adam
Wed (1/24/07) at 12:34 PM
Obviously a much needed move by Wikipedia. As everyone mentioned it will definitely cut down on spam. It is to bad though that the WHOLE "SEO" community was mentioned and didn't seperate the spammers...atleast it looked that way in my eyes.
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Michal W (7) Michal W
Thu (1/25/07) at 08:01 AM
In my opinion having links pointing to your site on Wikipedia is still profitable since the Wikipedia databases are not only used on wikipedia.org.

Moreover I don't believe that search engines do not consider links labeled with "nofollow". If this trend continues, the value of "nofollow"-links for search engines might become almost the same as of normal links.
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bogdan lebu (143) bogdan lebu
Wed (3/28/07) at 03:24 PM
it's true that the spam level will be reduced... but there are still some valuable pages on wikipedia, which deserve a "follow" link...
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Chris Rothwell (148) Chris Rothwell
Wed (3/28/07) at 03:31 PM
I think in the forseeable future that Matt's dream will come true. Hopefully it will cut the spam down even more and improve the quality of wikipedia.
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miercuri, 28 noiembrie 2007

Yahoo! 360° - Sin D's Blog :Şi totuşi P L D -CONSTANTA are un VICIU ASCUNS el se numeşte COLABORAREA cu P D -CONSTANTA





Yahoo! 360° - Sin D's Blog


collage:
Şi totuşi P L D -CONSTANTA are un VICIU ASCUNS el se numeşte COLABORAREA cu P D -CONSTANTA -Iustian n-are cojoness el duce la Constanta politica SRUŢULUI noi aici mai avem ceva nisip încă...

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Yahoo! 360° - Sin D's Blog : Şi totuşi P L D -CONSTANTA are un VICIU ASCUNS el se numeşte COLABORAREA cu P D -Cta





Yahoo! 360° - Sin D's Blog


Collage :
Şi totuşi P L D -CONSTANTA are un VICIU ASCUNS el se numeşte COLABORAREA cu P D -CONSTANTA -Iustian n-are cojoness el duce la Constanta politica SRUŢULUI noi aici mai avem ceva nisip încă...


PLD vrea să câştige alegerile locale la Constanţa împreună cu PD
Cosmin ZAPOROJAN
Mircea Iustian şi Stelian Duţu





Recomanda unui prieten

Liberalii constănţeni au suferit o grea înfrângere la scrutinul pentru euro-parlamentare. Nu pentru că au scos doar 11,01% sau pentru că PD şi PSD au luat caimacul electoratului. Asta a contat mult mai puţin pentru liberalii din municipiul Constanţa în comparaţie cu umilinţa de a fi călcaţi în picioare chiar de fraţii lor vitregi, PLD-iştii lui Iustian.
După ce a scos la euro-parlamentare 17 procente pe municipiul Constanţa, PLD priveşte acum cu alţi ochi alegerile locale de la anul. „La Constanţa, am devenit un actor politic la fel de important ca PD sau PSD în atacarea primăriei şi a consiliului local. Suntem a treia forţă politică din municipiu, cu mult înaintea PNL, deşi ziariştii plătiţi de Haşotti ne dădeau mereu la limita pragului electoral. Acum, când ştim că ne bazăm pe încrederea şi voturile a 17% dintre constănţeni, cu siguranţă că vom intra, cu şanse, în cursa pentru Primăria Constanţa cu un candidat propriu. Pot spune sigur că vom avea un candidat”, a declarat Iustian.
Liderul PLD este convins că împreună cu PD (32,5% la euro-parlamentare) va reuşi să scoată cel puţin un viceprimar şi să facă majoritatea în consiliul local. „La nivel de municipiu suntem cu mult peste PNL. PNL-iştii nu mai au nicio şansă. Noi suntem pe locul trei şi, cu protocolul de colaborare pe care îl avem cu PD, există şanse mari pentru a câştiga primăria şi consiliul local”, a mai adăugat preşedintele formaţiunii."

"CUGET LIBER" CONSTANŢA

10uh4.jpg (JPEG Image, 640x429 pixels) - Scaled (85%)

10uh4.jpg (JPEG Image, 640x429 pixels) - Scaled (85%)

marți, 27 noiembrie 2007

Galerie de Imagini : Ei sunt "teroristii" de la Europa Libera





Evenimentul Zilei Nr. 5005

Marti, 27 Noiembrie 2007, 23:30

Ei sunt "teroristii" de la Europa Libera

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Ei sunt "teroristii" de la Europa Libera

Pensionar-cercetator Foto:
Ion Constantin, spionul din Ministerul de Externe, mai are o singura misiune:


28 Noiembrie 2007
Laurentiu Mihu

Acuzati de atentate la radioul anticeausist si legaturi cu Carlos „Sacalul” in anii '80, doi diplomati povestesc cum au activat in MAE si SIE dupa Revolutie. IICCR a trimis o sesizare Parchetului General in privinta a cinci fosti diplomati din Ambasada Romaniei de la Bonn (Germania).



Ion Constantin, Ioan Lupu, Constantin Ciobanu, Dan Mihoc si Ion Grecu sunt acuzati de orchestrarea asasinarii, in anii ‘80, a unor disidenti de la Europa Libera, dar si de legaturi cu teroristul numarul 1 al lumii, pana la Osama bin Laden, Carlos „Sacalul”.

Totusi, seful securitatii postului Europa Libera, Richard Cummings, recunostea recent in „Jurnalul National” ca nu exista probe privind implicarea directa a Ambasadei romane in atentatele impotriva realizatorilor din radio. Cummings nu exclude insa ipoteza ca diplomatii sa fi pregatit un alt sabotaj, dupa cel cu bomba din ‘84. Astazi, EVZ prezinta traseele primilor doi acuzati, inainte si dupa Revolutie.

Si spion, si diplomat

Ion Constantin e cel mai tanar din grupul „celor cinci”, are 52 de ani, un copil si locuieste in Capitala. Il acuza de acte teroriste nu doar Institutul pentru Investigarea Crimelor Comunismului (IICCR), ci si arhivele CIA, STASI si AHV (fostele serviici de securitate est-german si ungar). Totusi, acuzatiile i se par ridicole, chiar daca trei decenii a activat in serviciile secrete, pana in 2003.

Constantin si-a inceput cariera in spionajul lui Ceausescu si s-a desavarsit sub mandatele lui Ion Iliescu si Emil Constantinescu. Fostul ofiter sustine ca, dupa ce a parasit sistemul, s-a retras in biblioteci, ca istoric-cercetator al evolutiilor Poloniei si Republicii Moldova. Doua tari unde recunoaste ca si-a cultivat relatii printre diplomati si politicieni, dar si colaborari cu institute, ziare si reviste.

In spionaj, cariera lui Constantin s-a dezvoltat pe trei „meridiane”. In Serviciul de Informatii Externe (SIE), la Ministerul Educatiei si la Ministerul de Externe (MAE), unde a activat sub acoperire: ca diplomat in ambasade.

Trimis de Melescanu in misiune

In MAE s-a angajat pe 20 ianuarie 1982, la un an dupa tentativele de asasinat asupra lui Paul Goma, Nicolae Penescu si Serban Orescu, realizatori de emisiuni la Europa Libera. Apoi, intre martie ‘96-iulie 2000, a fost trimis ca atasat cultural la Varsovia, in Polonia. In tot acest timp, Ion Constantin a ramas ofiter activ in SIE.

De altfel, in februarie 1996, ministrul de externe Teodor Melescanu semna un memorandum intern prin care aproba „angajarea in MAE si trimiterea in misiune permanenta (...) a domnului Ion Constantin”. Fostul spion a declarat pentru EVZ ca totul s-a facut „transparent”: „Polonezii stiau ca nu sunt doar diplomat”.

APARARE

„Am auzit de Carlos din presa”

Intr-un interviu acordat EVZ, fostul ofiter de informatii prezinta varianta sa cu privire la acuzatiile aduse si recunoaste ca a facut joc dublu in SIE si in guvernele Romaniei, inainte si dupa Revolutie.

Evenimentul zilei: Sunteti acuzat de terorism, tentativa de omor, lipsire de libertate...
Ion Constantin: E o calomnie macabra, fara acoperire reala. Precizez ca in acel moment eu nu eram acolo.

Unde erati in februarie ‘81?
La Bucuresti.

Cu ce anume va ocupati?
Cercetarea, eu sunt istoric.

La ce institut?
La vremea respectiva... deci nu, nu... eu am pasit prima data in Germania pe 20 ianuarie 1982.

Dar in februarie ‘81 unde erati?
In ‘81? In momentul respectiv eram in centrala... in Bucuresti.

Nu puteti spune unde?
Nu va pot da toate detaliile astea.

Ati activat in CIE (predecesorul SIE - n.r.)?
Da, asta da.

Pe ce zona, cu ce rang?
... In ierarhia obisnuita, de la cele mai mici trepte.

Care a fost cea mai inalta?
Dupa ‘90, in SIE.

Sunteti in continuare activ?
Nu, de patru ani. Acum sunt activ in cercetare.

De ce nu ati intrat in afaceri?
Nu am o profesie adecvata.

I-ati livrat „Sacalului” bomba pentru Europa Libera in 1984?
Eu am auzit de acest personaj dupa ‘90, din presa. Am fost cutremurat sa aflu ce s-a intamplat. Despre evenimentul din ‘81 stiam si eu din emisiunile Europei Libere, pe care le ascultam ca oricine.

In ‘84 v-ati transferat la Ministerul Educatiei. In ce calitate?
Ca referent.

Atasat cultural SIE la Varsovia

In ‘96, la revenirea in MAE, erati activ in SIE?
Da. In martie, acel an, am plecat la post in Polonia, la Varsovia.

Pe ce pozitie?
Diplomat, atasat cultural.

De ce ati parasit MAE?
S-a terminat detasarea.

Cu domnii Grecu, Mihoc, Ciobanu si Lupu ati tinut legatura dupa revenirea de la Bonn?
Tangential, nu sistematic.

Ce grad aveati in CIE, in 1981?
De locotenent-major.

Ati mai iesit din tara inainte de episodul Bonn?
O data, in ‘76, intr-o excursie de studii la Plevna, in Bulgaria.

ION CONSTANTIN

> 20 ianuarie 1982, secretar III Centrala MAE/Bonn.

> 20 ianuarie 1982-12 decembrie 1983 secretar III la Ambasada Republicii Socialiste Romania la Bonn.

> 12 decembrie 1983-28 decembrie 1983 secretar III in Centrala MAE.

> 28 decembrie 1983-12 noiembrie 1984 secretar III la Ambasada Republicii Socialiste Romania la Bonn.

> 12 noiembrie 1984 e rechemat in tara, ii inceteaza angajarea in MAE si se transfera la Ministerul Educatiei.

> 15 martie 1996-17 iulie 2000 revine in MAE si e trimis secretar I la Ambasada Romaniei la Varsovia.

> 17 iulie 2000 paraseste MAE, prin acordul
partilor.

IOAN LUPU

> 1 septembrie 1965 referent relatii la Directia Relatii.

> 27 octombrie 1969-13 noiembrie 1975 secretar III la Berlin.

> 13 noiembrie 1975 reia activitatea in Centrala MAE, Directia pentru Cultura si Presa.

> 16 iulie 1981-12 noiembrie 1984 secretar I la Bonn.

> 12 noiembrie 1984 secretar I in Centrala MAE

> 30 martie 1987-1 iulie 1987 secretar I la Berlin.

> 21 decembrie 1990 diplomat la Cabinetul Ministrului si Directia America Latina in Centrala MAE.

> 13 septembrie 1993-15 septembrie 1997 consilier diplomatic la Caracas.

> 1997-2005 (anul pensionarii) angajat in Centrala MAE.
Sursa: MAE



CAZUL MIHOC

Afaceri de milioane cu petrol

Portalul de stiri Hotnews a dazvaluit de curand ca Dan Mihoc (foto), angajat al ambasadei romane de la Bonn in anii ‘80 acuzat de terorism, e astazi un prosper om de afaceri pe piata energiei si reprezinta in Romania interesele gigantului British Petroleum.

Mihoc respinge insa acuzatiile de implicare in lichidarea lui Paul Goma, Nicolae Penescu si Serban Orescu, dar recunoaste ca a fost ofiter in spionajul extern. Conform datelor furnizate EVZ de Ministerul de Externe, Dan Mihoc nu a facut niciodata parte din MAE.

FARA REPROS

„Ce treaba am eu cu „Sacalul”„?

Fostul diplomat Ioan Lupu are 67 de ani, e pensionar si locuieste cu fiul sau, in zona Doamna Ghica din Capitala. Diplomatia a parasit-o abia in urma cu doi ani, dupa instalarea lui Mihai-Razvan Ungureanu in fruntea MAE.

Numele sau nu apare in nicio firma si, din propriile spuse, reiese ca nu ar mai tine legatura cu niciunul dintre fostii sai colegi, Dan Mihoc, Ion Constantin, Ion Grecu si Constantin Ciobanu.

In schimb, dosarul „Europa Libera” il infurie la culme, atat timp cat de activitatea prestata in MAE sustine ca s-au bucurat nu doar Nicolae Ceausescu, ci si Ion Iliescu, Emil Constantinescu si Traian Basescu. „Ce terorism, ce Europa Libera, cand semnatura mea a ajuns pe rapoartele pentru trei noi presedinti?”, explica Ioan Lupu. Care i-a fost alaturi chiar si lui Adrian Nastase, in ‘90 si ‘91, ca diplomat la Cabinetul Ministrului de Externe.

„E o aberatie”

„Evenimentul zilei”: Sunteti suspectat de tentativa de asasinare a unor disidenti de la Europa Libera. Cum comentati?
Ioan Lupu: Cine face o asemenea afirmatie va trebui sa o dovedeasca cu documente. Eu sunt foarte linistit, e o aberatie totala. Cine a lucrat in Ministerul de Externe stie ca orice intalnire si orice activitate se consemneaza la minister. S-a mai zis despre mine si ca am fost traducatorul oficial al dictatorului. Dar nu am fost traducatorul oficial al lui Ceausescu, ci ocazional, am tradus, inclusiv pentru Ceausescu, in si din limba germana.

L-ati cunoscut pe „Sacalul”?
Asta e, de asemenea, o comicarie.... Am fost diplomat 40 de ani cu carte de munca, ce treaba am eu cu „Sacalul”?

In ce relatii ati fost cu generalul Plesita (fost sef al serviciului de spionaj al lui Ceausescu - n.r.)?
Nu l-am cunoscut si nu l-am vazut niciodata.

Va veti prezenta in instanta?
E o datorie de cetatean.

Ati pastrat legatura cu ceilalti patru colegi, acuzati cu dumneavoastra?
Domnule, au trecut peste 20 de ani...
CAZUL MIHOC

Afaceri de milioane cu petrol

Portalul de stiri Hotnews a dazvaluit de curand ca Dan Mihoc (foto), angajat al ambasadei romane de la Bonn in anii ‘80 acuzat de terorism, e astazi un prosper om de afaceri pe piata energiei si reprezinta in Romania interesele gigantului British Petroleum.

Mihoc respinge insa acuzatiile de implicare in lichidarea lui Paul Goma, Nicolae Penescu si Serban Orescu, dar recunoaste ca a fost ofiter in spionajul extern. Conform datelor furnizate EVZ de Ministerul de Externe, Dan Mihoc nu a facut niciodata parte din MAE.

FARA REPROS

„Ce treaba am eu cu „Sacalul”„?

Fostul diplomat Ioan Lupu are 67 de ani, e pensionar si locuieste cu fiul sau, in zona Doamna Ghica din Capitala. Diplomatia a parasit-o abia in urma cu doi ani, dupa instalarea lui Mihai-Razvan Ungureanu in fruntea MAE.

Numele sau nu apare in nicio firma si, din propriile spuse, reiese ca nu ar mai tine legatura cu niciunul dintre fostii sai colegi, Dan Mihoc, Ion Constantin, Ion Grecu si Constantin Ciobanu.

In schimb, dosarul „Europa Libera” il infurie la culme, atat timp cat de activitatea prestata in MAE sustine ca s-au bucurat nu doar Nicolae Ceausescu, ci si Ion Iliescu, Emil Constantinescu si Traian Basescu. „Ce terorism, ce Europa Libera, cand semnatura mea a ajuns pe rapoartele pentru trei noi presedinti?”, explica Ioan Lupu. Care i-a fost alaturi chiar si lui Adrian Nastase, in ‘90 si ‘91, ca diplomat la Cabinetul Ministrului de Externe.

„E o aberatie”

„Evenimentul zilei”: Sunteti suspectat de tentativa de asasinare a unor disidenti de la Europa Libera. Cum comentati?
Ioan Lupu: Cine face o asemenea afirmatie va trebui sa o dovedeasca cu documente. Eu sunt foarte linistit, e o aberatie totala. Cine a lucrat in Ministerul de Externe stie ca orice intalnire si orice activitate se consemneaza la minister. S-a mai zis despre mine si ca am fost traducatorul oficial al dictatorului. Dar nu am fost traducatorul oficial al lui Ceausescu, ci ocazional, am tradus, inclusiv pentru Ceausescu, in si din limba germana.

L-ati cunoscut pe „Sacalul”?
Asta e, de asemenea, o comicarie.... Am fost diplomat 40 de ani cu carte de munca, ce treaba am eu cu „Sacalul”?

In ce relatii ati fost cu generalul Plesita (fost sef al serviciului de spionaj al lui Ceausescu - n.r.)?
Nu l-am cunoscut si nu l-am vazut niciodata.

Va veti prezenta in instanta?
E o datorie de cetatean.

Ati pastrat legatura cu ceilalti patru colegi, acuzati cu dumneavoastra?
Domnule, au trecut peste 20 de ani...
"

Yahoo! 360° - Sin D's Blog : PARTIDUL VEDETĂ AL EUROALEGERILOR A FOST DESIGUR P L D








Yahoo! 360° - Sin D's Blog
PARTIDUL VEDETĂ AL EUROALEGERILOR A FOST DESIGUR P L D

"TITLURILE ZILEI

PNL şi PLD, umăr la umăr la Constanţa
Cosmin ZAPOROJAN
Liberalii au strâns 13,93% din voturi în judeţ, în timp ce pelediştii au luat 12 procente # PD a câştigat alegerile la malul mării cu 32,88%
Pupi şi Stolo le suflă în ceafă liberalilor





Clasa politică a susţinut, duminică, primul examen în faţa românilor dintr-un ciclu electoral de doi ani. Atât scrutinul pentru euro-parlamentare, cât şi referendumul pentru votul uninominal, au stat sub semnul indiferenţei, chiar silei, românilor, sătui să tot fie părtaşi la alegerea unor sisteme politice ce s-au dovedit de fiecare dată ticăloşite. Aşa că românii au preferat să nu iasă la vot, prezenţa la urne fiind undeva la 28 de procente.









În judeţul Constanţa, de asemenea, oamenii nu s-au prea înghesuit cu ştampila. Din 624.000 de alegători înscrişi pe listele electorale, doar 184.000 şi-au exercitat dreptul votului, puţin peste 29% din electorat.












Curentul naţional pro-PD s-a păstrat şi la Constanţa, deşi democraţii locali nu au făcut eforturi considerabile în campanie. Ba chiar pediştii constănţenii au depăşit media pe ţară cu aproximativ 3 procente.








Nemultumit de rezultatele de la euroalegeri,
Orban spune ca PNL a pierdut voturi din cauza lui Stolojan
Partidul National Liberal are multe sa-si reproseze, chiar daca a iesit pe un onorabil loc trei in alegerile europarlamentare. Scorul este sub potential si asteptari, ba mai mult, PNL suporta cu greu faptul ca PLD a trecut, cu brio chiar, pragul de 5%. Ieri, in momentele in care liberalii s-au reunit in sedinta pentru a dezbate ceva ce nu au dorit apoi sa comenteze clar, s-a vehiculat si ideea conform careia urmeaza sa cada capete. Primii vizati – spun surse – ale ministrilor Adrian Cioroianu, Tudor Chiuariu si Cristian David, a caror activitate nu este una tocmai de lauda si de ridicat procentele partidului. Urmeaza, se mai aude, si analiza in teritoriu, a organizatiilor si scorurile obtinute de acestea, la Constanta de exemplu fiind extrem de suparator procentul obtinut de PLD – de 12%.
Alta data in verva si dornic sa intretina buna dispozitie a presei prin comentarii picante, vicepresedintele PNL Ludovic Orban a parut, de aceasta data, extrem de abatut dupa sedinta partidului. A dat vina pe oboseala si a evitat, sistematic sa spuna despre ce s-a discutat la intrunirea PNL de la centru: „Am vorbit... numai despre lucruri frumoase!”, a spus, cu amaraciune in glas, Orban. Vicepresedintele nu a dorit sa confirme daca s-a discutat despre o eventuala remaniere guvernamentala, mentionand doar ca „oricum, o remaniere se face greu, e nevoie de semnatura lui Basescu pentru numirea altor ministri”. In ceea ce priveste rezultatele alegerilor pentru europarlamentare, Ludovic Orban a afirmat, deschis: „Eu sunt nemultumit. Cu o strategie bine pusa la punct PNL ar fi putut lua 16,5 – 17% din voturi, atat cat este potentialul partidului”. Motivul pentru care PNL nu a „scos” mai mult: „Am pierdut voturi din cauza lui Stolojan. Noi nu am contracarat confuzia care a fost facuta in legatura cu Stolojan si partidul acestuia, a faptului ca el nu mai reprezinta PNL”, a declarat pentru „Replica” Orban. In ceea ce priveste invitatia presedintelui Traian Basescu, lansata partidelor parlamentare, precum si grupul parlamentar al minoritatilor nationale, la consultari pe tema votului uninominal, Ludovic Orban a declarat ca PNL n-o va onora. „Ce sa discutam? Nu mai avem ce”, a completat vicepresedintele liberal. Cat priveste rezultatul de la referendum – adica faptul ca nu a fost validat – Orban este de parere ca acest lucru reprezinta „cea mai mare infrangere a lui Basescu”. De mentionat ca invitatia la consultarile initiate de Basescu pentru ziua de joi, incepand cu ora 11.00, cand pentru prima data este invitat si PLD, au fost deja refuzate si de PSD si PRM, nu doar de PNL. (Alexandra Anton)

"Cei 35 care ne vor reprezenta in Parlamentul European
Potrivit datelor anuntate de Biroul Electoral Central (BEC), din totalul de 35 de europarlamentari romani care vor pleca in Parlamentul European 11 vor fi democrati, 8 social-democrati, 6 - PNL, in timp ce PLD si UDMR vor avea cate doi. De asemenea, un loc va fi ocupat de candidatul independent Laszlo Tokes, deoarece pragul pentru candidatii independenti este de 2,5%. Cel mai probabil, prin redistribuirea voturilor partidelor care nu au obtinut pragul de 5%, PD va mai obtine inca 3 mandate, iar PSD si PNL cate unul. Desi unii dintre candidatii eligibili ar putea renunta la mandat in favoarea urmatorilor pe lista, calculul arata ca lista finala a politicienilor care ne vor reprezenta in Parlamentul European este urmatoarea:


REPREZENTANTI PD

1. Frunzaverde Sorin - 47 ani. Profesia: Inginer

2. Anastase Roberta Alma - 31 ani. Profesia: Sociolog

3. Filip Petru - 52 ani. Profesia: Inginer

4. Iacob-Ridzi Monica - 30 ani. Profesia: Economist, jurist

5. Marinescu Marian Jean - 55 ani. Profesia: Inginer

6. Petre Maria - 56 ani. Profesia: Economist

7. Niculescu Rares Lucian - 31 ani. Profesia: Licentiat stiinte politice

8. Zlotea Marian - 36 ani. Profesia: Economist

9. David Dragos Florin - 39 ani. Profesia: Inginer

10. Popa Mihaela - 45 ani. Profesia: Profesor

11. Dumitriu Constantin - 36 ani. Profesia: Jurist

12. Bulzesc Nicodim - 55 ani. Profesia: Inginer

13. Bodu Sebastian Valentin - 37 ani. Profesia: Jurist

14. Rus Flaviu Calin - 37 ani. Profesia: Psiholog


REPREZENTANTI PSD

15. Titus Corlatean - 39 ani. Profesia: Jurist

16. Adrian Severin - 53 ani. Profesia: Jurist

17. Rovana Plumb - 47 ani. Profesia: Doctor inginer

18. Daciana Sarbu - 30 ani. Profesia: Jurist

19. Catalin Nechifor - 33 ani. Profesia: Inginer

20. Adriana Ticau - 37 ani. Profesia: Inginer

21. Ioan Mircea Pascu - 58 ani. Profesia: Economist

22. Gabriela Cretu - 42 ani. Profesia: Profesor

23. Corina Cretu - 42 ani. Profesia: Economist


REPREZENTANTII PNL

24. Weber Renate - 52 ani. Profesia: Jurist

25. Daianu Daniel - 55 ani. Profesia: Economist

26. Valean Adina Ioana - 39 ani. Profesia: Matematician

27. Busoi Cristian - 29 ani. Profesia: Medic

28. Manescu Ramona Nicole - 35 ani. Profesia: Avocat

29. Csibi Magor Imre - 27 ani. Profesia: Politolog

30. Olaru Stejarel Nicolae - 34 ani. Profesia: Analist stiinte politice


REPREZENTANTII PLD

31. Theodor Dumitru Stolojan - 64 ani. Profesia: Economist

32. Oprea Dumitru Manesti - 55 ani. Profesia: Economist


REPREZENTANTI UDMR

33. Frunda György - 56 ani. Profesia: Avocat

34. Sógor Csaba - 43 ani. Profesia: Preot reformat


CANDIDAT INDEPENDENT

35. Laszlo Tokes - 55 ani. Profesia: Preot reformat


Potrivit acestei liste, media de varsta a reprezentantilor Romaniei in Parlamentul European este de 43 de ani. Cel mai in varsta candidat este Theodor Stolojan (PLD) - 64 de ani, urmat de Ioan Mircea Pascu (PSD) - 58 de ani. Avand in vedere ca Theodor Stolojan este presedintele PLD, este posibil ca acesta sa se retraga de pe lista pentru europarlamentare, lasand loc unui coleg mai tanar. Cel mai tanar europarlamentar aflat pe lista eligibila este Csibi Magor-Imre (PNL), care are doar 27 de ani. Cei 35 de europarlamentari romani vor avea un mandat scurt, deoarece in 2009 vor avea loc din nou alegeri pentru Parlamentul European.
PLD a umilit PNL

-- Ieri, rezultatele partiale ale europarlamentarelor aratau ca, la Constanta, PLD se situa inaintea PNL, liberal-democratii avand 16,9% din voturile valabil exprimate, iar liberalii doar 11,02%






Viata interna a partidelor va capata un alt potential de conflict, iar competitia dintre formatiuni va capata noi dimensiuni.

Un caz concret este competitia acerba dintre Partidul National Liberal si Partidul Liberal Democrat. Apelurilor lansate de liderii importanti ai liberalilor, printre care vicepresedintele PNL senatorul Puiu Hasotti, prin intermediul carora indemnau electoratul sa nu voteze cu PLD, nu si-au atins scopul. Scorul obtinut de formatiunea condusa de Theodor Stolojan, un partid nou pe scena politica autohtona, confirma faptul ca PNL nu mai reprezinta nici macar interesele propriului electorat. Centralizarea rezultatelor inregistrate in 288 de sectii de votare din judetul Constanta situa PLD-ul inaintea PNL-ului, liberal-democratii avand 16,9% din voturile valabil exprimate, iar liberalii doar 11,02%. Rezultatul final al europarlamentarelor avea sa schimbe raporturile dintre cele doua formatiuni - PNL (13,93%) si PLD (12%) - insa diferenta de aproape doua procente arata, fara echivoc, interesul crescut pe care liberal-democratii au reusit sa-l insufle cetatenilor, intr-un timp relativ scurt.

Situatia devine foarte interesanta in municipiul Constanta. In cele 195 de sectii de votare ce au functionat aici, Partidul Liberal Democrat a reusit sa atraga 12.650 de voturi, reprezentand 16,9% din optiunile constantenilor, comparativ cu PNL care a avut doar 8244 voturi (11,02%). In contextul prezentat, aparitia PLD-ului pare sa creeze probleme serioase PNL-ului si nu ar fi exclus ca, la viitoarele scrutine - alegerile locale si parlamentare din 2008, multe din mandatele detinute acum de liberali sa revina "fostilor colegi" liberal-democratilor.

Mihaela CIORBARU
ISSN 1583-8021, © 1998-2007 ziua "ziua srl",

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Cine a Furat Banii lui Ceausescu | PODCAST Cristian Sima